Saturday, December 11, 2010
Justice37 strongly disputes naysayer skeptic's comments
Did you even read my post. It didn't take 2-3 months to fill out the paperwork dude. I said a month, one month, 1 month, 30 or so days, however, this is just an approximation off the top of my head. Way different from 2-3 months. Also, you have to include more than just, as you say, a ten page form. Things like test results, etc... This is the information they gathered.
You seem to be the only person who claims the DEC approves things quickly, it seems that is not the case. I suggest you go to the DED website, do some better research on the application process.
Your last paragraph... "I'm telling you...this is a delay tactic. Mr. Bordynuik has no intention of commercially producing a worthless product--that would cost him money that he could instead be sticking in his pocket. The permit 'problem' was inserted in April as part of the story line. If you think he can't insert more 'steps' then you're being naive."...is at it's best a wonderful piece of fiction, there is nothing in your claim based on fact.
If you want to do some reading on the process and issues leading up to the stack test, getting results and the application, this is from the 10-Q, out there for everyone to read, and hopefully you will too:
On December 9, 2009 a New York state certified lab, IsleChem, was engaged to verify the Company’s Plastic2Oil process. During 40 test runs, IsleChem was able to isolate the conditions that allowed the process to run optimally and they verified that our Plastic2Oil process is scalable and repeatable.
Following IsleChem’s report, the Company assembled a 20T Plastic2Oil processor in at a facility in Niagara Falls, NY. In addition to the P2O machine, the Company purchased a shredder and granulator to preprocess any bulk plastic that the Company may encounter. The P2O process produces a minor by-product of off-gas, which is much like natural gas. After testing at high processing rates, it was found that all of the off-gas could not be burned in the processor’s furnace. Flaring excess off-gas is common in the oil and gas industry, but this practice is not environmentally friendly, is a waste of valuable gas, and would require a separate permit. To avoid flaring the excess gas, the Company purchased a gas compression system in June 2010vthat buffers and regulates the off-gas. The gas is then stored in mobile tanks and can be resold or used to cold start the P2O furnace.
There have been many other additions to the P2O machine and facility since the last quarterly filing, all of which have been designed to increase efficiencies and improve operations. A second condenser was added to the P2O system so that there is one condenser to condense the heavy fuel (diesel) and another to condense the light fractions (gasoline). Additional improvements include an expansion of the furnace, installation of a small cooling tower and the purchase of a small diesel generator for times when our machinery is disconnected from the electrical grid.
We have made investments in securing the premises of our P2O site. We installed a multi-camera security system, a video archival security system, a perimeter fence, and we built a small guardhouse to control access to the facility. Off-duty East Buffalo law enforcement have contracted with JBI Inc. to protect and secure the property around the clock.
To assist in control, data logging, operations, and management, a complete P2O automation system that includes 63 sensors, was developed by our CEO. In June 2010, it was discovered that oxygen sensors supplied by a major US sensor manufacturer had failed after being exposed to the process over time. A number of oxygen sensors were tested until suitable replacements were found. As of the date of this filing, all sensors on the P2O processor continue to function properly. This delayed the testing of our emissions, and consequently our application to the New York Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) simple air permit. During July and August 2010, the machine was operated at a steady state in order to gather data for the emissions test on our stack.
The Company scheduled a third party engineering firm, Conestoga Rovers & Associates (CRA), to conduct our stack test. It was completed on August 17, 2010 and witnessed by associated members of the DEC. IsleChem assisted the Company during this period by providing engineering support in gathering the data required for the application of our DEC simple air permit.
On September 17, 2010, the Company received the stack test results from CRA. The Company had expected to receive the CRA report within 7-10 days of the testing, however, an additional three weeks passed before it was received. The results indicate that the processor is emitting 14.87% oxygen to the stack, while only emitting 3.16 ppm (parts per million) of carbon monoxide, 0.81 lb/hr (86.4 ppm) of NOx, SO2 and THC levels that were below 1 ppm, and a particulate level below 0.02 lb/hr. In other words, the process puts a high percentage of oxygen back into the air while emitting very little, if any, toxic substances during the conversion of waste plastic into usable hydrocarbon fuels. The stack test confirmed that the P2O processor emissions are far below maximum emissions allowed under a DEC simple air permit and consequently confirmed that the only air permit we require for the process is a simple air permit."
Lets clarify some of the information you posted.
"cost between crude oil and petroleum products is just a few dollars per barrel"
The current cost of oil is $87.82 per barrel. Converted the cost of diesel is approximately $3.25 per gallon X 42 gallons (to equal a barrel) = $135.50 per barrel or a difference of $48.68 per barrel. So the difference is more than a third per barrel between the two, a single barrel could be seen as a few dollars, multiplied by 1000 and it's more than a few dollars.
JBI has a refinery, the product sent to the refinary needs little refining, based on what Islechem and other third party analysis have shown. So technically, JBI could sell the diesel after minimal processing at $135.50.
You also reported:
"Mr. Bordynuik stated on Facebook that he was trying to get hydrocarbon-only plastics showing he understands the problem of elemental oxygen. The problem is that the plastic sorted into types to exclude those containing elemental oxygen costs around $500/ton meaning that the margin would be virtually zero or negative just based on the feedstock."
You are quoting very old information, however, that's not much of an issue. Testing was done on all sorts of plastics, any kind will do including mixed, he has indicated what you put in determines what you get out, fewer additives means less waste product but anything that can be converted to oil will be. Also you reported "trying to get hydrocarbon-only plastics" does not mean has to get them. You also say that John understands "the problem of elemental oxygen". Show me where John or JBI have said that, how do you know he understands there is a problem, did he tell you this? You seem to be stating this assumption as a fact, it isn't a fact. Show me real research that supports your claim re: the problems with plastic with elemental oxygen. I think the O2 issue you bring up is a red herring but you are more than welcome to keep bringing it up.
Another issue is that you refuse to believe that JBI can get free feedstock. I again suggest you do some research on the internet. There is a lot of plastic out there, companies, municipalities pay for others to take their plastic to be put in landfill. It's a huge savings for them to give it away. I also want to know where you came up with the $500/ton for sorted waste plastic that has not been completely separated, sorted by plastic type, and reground, could you provide a link? People have also asked why JBII won't provide the name of the company. In my opinion it is because in the past any such information results in the company being called numerous times and groundless accusations are made about JBI. Happened with MIT and even NASA back when the tape reading business was being bashed. But again, this is just my opinion. JBI may report the supplier or suppliers when they receive the permits and are into full production but then it depends on contracts and if the providers want it publicized. Reports given to SEC should have plastic costs it but if there is no cost then it won't well it, none yet by the way.
I think the biggest reason to believe that there is a supplier is that there have been hundreds of hours of testing (if not thousands) done on the P2O. Since the processor can convert approximately 20 tons (or 40,000 pounds) of plastic to oil in 24 hours (assuming there is no shut down) that is a lot of plastic needed to do testing. I don't think employees brought in plastic from home or raided their neighbors recycling boxes to get it.
Another point is you keep referring to JBI offering pyrolysis oil. It isn't the same process as is used by other P2O processes. Others basically heat the plastic till it melts and some oil comes out leaving a lot of waste. Much less heat, I believe half, is used for the JBI process, the plastic needs to be heated but it's what has been disparagingly referred to as the "magic catalyst" which breaks down the plastic and converts it to oil, huge difference and not the same as the competitors mentioned by many on the board. I won't go into the differences in the cost of competitors machines compared to JBI's, oops, just did.
Lastly, you said:
"My experience with these situations is that those who could provide evidence of value but never provide anything unambiguous and substantive generally are trying to hide that they don't have anything."
It's my impression, but please let me know if I am wrong, that when evidence is provided, such as Islechem reports, the results of the stack test from Conestoga Rovers & Associates (CRA), PR's regarding test results of the converted plastic (diesel, gasoline, propane) are continually ignored or not believed. The companies are labeled as incompetent or in league with JBI with the purpose of scamming shareholders. I fully believe that when I'm driving my car using the gasoline sold to an independent gasoline station, I'll still hear that it doesn't exist, is a scam, or something along the lines that the gasoline causes birth defects. The negative comments will probably never stop. Think I'm going to take a break now and watch "Conspiracy Theory".... great movie.