JBI CEO Clarifies P2O vs. Recycling

John Bordynuik speaks: Via John's Facebook

JBII: Shorters don’t want you to visit a landfill / dump.
Today at 8:27pm Jan. 5, 2010

Don't use the word landfill around shorters of our stock. You just might see something that they don't want you too (but I am sure you have): plastic. A lot of plastic. To be specifc, 80% of all plastic "recycled" in the United States ends up in landfill. Don't blame me - I didn't do it. Don't blame corporations - they can't recycle it. Don't blame the municipalities - they tried.

But, according to the short investors, they all get $0.20/lb?
No, they pay landfill $78/T for all the plastic they can't sell (80% of all plastic)
They do get $0.01 to $0.20/lb highly sorted, specific, no cross contamination, specific plastics without additives (less than 20% of all plastic recycled).

I don't want the $0.20/lb plastic. They can have that. I get the plastic (80% of all plastic) that they don't get paid for... and they pay $78/T to get rid of it.

A few notes about our processor:

1. We don't want sorted plastic. Our process enjoys mixed plastic.
2. We don't need clean plastic high grade PET plastic with no contamination - sell it.
3. If your load of plastic is contaminated (80% are AFTER sorting) then we'll take it.

Contamination is not only other plastics in "the mix" but also other plastics and additives to make many tough plastics.

80% of plastic ends up in landfill and dumps and a cost of $70/T or more, not including shipping. The EPA says so, the plastic recyclers know so, and a local visit to your dump proves it.

Less than 20% of the plastics in the US are resold in recycling because they aren’t contaminated/ no additives/ or cross contamination. Unfortunately, 80% of plastic is a problem and to the landfill it goes.

Unfortunately, 80% of the post industrial and consumer plastic in the United States cannot be sorted and is contaminated with other plastics which render the entire load worthless. You cannot get $0.20/lb for HDPE if it contains contaminates, other plastics, other compounds to alter its properties. Plastic recycling facilities often receive loads of plastic that are PET, or HDPE but are cross contaminated with some other fraction of plastic or contaminate. These cannot be sorted and are sent to landfill. Please see the EPA statistics for plastic recycled in the United States
.

It’s sad to see people shorting the stock producing poor math and misinformation.

“If they spend the time and money to sort the plastic, why wouldn't they just sell it to a recycler and pocket money rather than all the fuss with P2O processor IMO?”

If municipalities and corporations could do this then they would. They can’t. They hope to isolate PET and some other substances that they can sell as a commodity. 80% of it cannot be sorted clean enough.

I had the pleasure of speaking to the owner of a very large plastic recycling facility in Georgia. I am going to call him tomorrow to get very specific numbers but here is what I was able to determine:

16% of his gross costs is transporting plastic.
20% of the plastic he does collect is exported to China
A significant portion of their plastic is sent to landfill when it is cross contaminated with other types of plastic. ie: PET load with some HDPE. They pay those fees.
Even if the load is well sorted (ie: PET), if it contains any HDPE then the entire load is worthless.

He called because he would like to take all the plastic he is diverting to landfill and process with our P2O machine and produce fuel for his 110 trucks.

Other misinformation:

“And much of the hard-to-dispose-of plastic still would have to be disposed outside the JBII P2O idea.”

This is untrue. We process the majority whereas plastic recyclers are sending 80%+ to landfill.

“here's HDPE and LDPE links to get a ballpark idea what buyers will pay for plastic per pound:”

Yes, highly sorted, only one type of plastic with absolutely no contaminates, cleaned, and no additives in the original plastic to alter its properties. Unfortunately, most plastics don’t fit this bill and make up 80% of the plastic in the US.


“Looks to me like there are several buyers in the 20 cent per pound range for recycled plastic. Some offering to pay more.”

We take the 80% of the plastic that is not 20 cents per pound. Our plastic is currently costing the municipalities and recyclers $70+ per ton to dispose of in landfill. They can have the ultra high quality plastic for $0.20/lb.

“JBII's P2O would be using about 160 kg plastic per barrel of liquid fuel produced I believe.”

This is a great approximation. Let’s work out how much it costs/barrel:

$-0.01/lb cost - (80% of plastic does not meet the high grade for sale, it must be landfilled)

So about 350 pounds of plastic could be sold to JBI for -$3.50/lb (yes, they pay us).

Now let’s do the math on the cost per barrel:

They pay us 1 cent/lb x 350 lb = $-3.50 / barrel received for recycling.

“Why would a muni landfill potential go thru all that mess of P2O to get $70/barrel roughly when they could just sell it in plastic form to a recycler for about the same price and save on a ton of expenses associated with P2O?”

Well, if they could sell it then I believe they would. They can’t 80% of all plastic ends up in landfill. Don’t believe me? Don’t believe the EPA? Visit a dump.

“China companies could order a couple packets of the catalyst do some simple chemical analysis and go directly to the company making the processors and do what they want with P2O IMO without much problem from JBII.”

Upper line: Our plastic, free or paid to accept.
Lower line: Plastic for $0.20/lb or less.
I don't mind taking the plastic between the bottom and top line.

My primary concern (for posting this info) was that I did not want the wrong information to disseminate to potential clients. Many recycling facilities are contacting me and they have to wade through some misinformation on the message boards. I've received several calls from large recyclers in the US today.